I can't wait to hear the new album but feel pretty empty looking at that Tour page. How long a break? Will there be a new years show or run of shows?
The talk of the "HUGE" 2012 year for the band a few months ago means....? HORDE anniversary tour? Same ol Same ol'?....Back to the dingy bars and clubs that made this band?......Expansion of the Setlists?.....July 4th at Red Rocks featuring Save His Soul?..... I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the war room. It seems like a critical point in the band's history right now and frankly Im really curious how this will play itself out over the next couple years. Thoughts?
And now....?
(11 posts) (4 voices)-
dantraveler
MemberPosted 7 months ago # -
remaininlite
MemberI like the idea of HORDE Anniversary, but really - is BT big enough any more to headline their own festival? Many of the bands that were big or made it big alongside BT back in the day are now too big to play beneath BT or simply no longer exist. I would like to see BT do a straight up summer tour, drop some of the hokey covers, expand on their setlists, and not rely on a "Playing [insert album title here] In Its Entirety" show in order to play classic favorites. I want to be surprised.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Gordon_The_Hat
MemberBT is big enough to headline their own festival. They would just need to choose the venue and the line up wisely. The idea of using up and coming acts to increase their fan base and include a new generation, is a good one and important for our way of life. I know that sounds a bit serious, but this country needs rock and roll, lets face it the Hip Hop lifestyle is unsustainable. Long Live BT and Long Live American Rock and Roll.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Gordon_The_Hat
MemberHorizons of Rock Developing Everywhere
If there have been hip hop acts there before or in the future, I don't think anyone would mind for that matter, but the expressed mission of the Horde festival was to help the next wave of great rock musicians get a chance to have more exposure and go on a large tour.
Rock and roll is a tradition of music that has been around since the 50s and every generation has put its one stamp on it, but it is still grounded in that tradition. It is worth perserving because it promotes a view of America that is healthy over all. Our art defines us as much as we define our art, and it is important that rock and roll stay in the forefront of the culture, and if you look at the acts that played the Horde festival you can see that a lot of them carried the torch of Rock and Roll.
Hip hop is not healthy in many ways, as a lot of it promotes materialism, sexism, violence, ego, me first over group think, thug lifestyle etc... Not saying it isn't fun to listen too and party too, what I am saying is that it is not healthy for our nation the Rock and Roll is. If Hip Hop started morphing into something different I would not support its preservation.
Posted 7 months ago # -
remaininlite
MemberThere's a whole other sub-genre of hip-hop now known as Conscious Hip Hop and it's Hip Hop artists whose lyrics deal with social issues, not just the materialistic aspect in which you speak of. I think you're truly missing the point of the 'E' in HORDE. EVERYWHERE. I don't think this refers to "places in America", rather, all areas of the music world.
Think...
Mos Def
Black Star
Blackalicious
Michael Franti & Spearhead
The Roots
CommonThese artists sing/rap about meaningful things. To blindly (deafly?) state that ALL hip-hop is bad is just as ignorant as to say all rock and roll is traditional and thought-provoking. There has not been HORDE for 13 years. A lot has changed. A lot of hip-hop has evolved, while a lot of traditional, American rock and roll has devolved. If BT wanted to make HORDE successful again, they'll need to expand on their rosters. Quite frankly, if they were to keep the lineup as esoteric as it once was, it would be as lackluster and unsuccessful as Sarah McLachlan's recent Lilith Fair anniversary failure.
Just taking a quick glance at the HORDE artist list on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.O.R.D.E.), I've noticed that most of these "torch bearers" are either defunct or deceased. With the former, it's probably because their traditional approach wasn't working.
I personally HATE large festivals (Outside Lands, Bonnaroo, etc.), but they ARE successful because of the sheer diversity of the artists. Even the free Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival in San Francisco knew they had to incorporate more than just bluegrass.
I will not bash rock and roll for being stagnant and redundant. And likewise, you shouldn't deem all hip-hop as being materialistic and "unhealthy"
Posted 7 months ago # -
Gordon_The_Hat
MemberWell if there is conscious hip hop that would be an improvement over the boastfull, materialistic, chauvanistic, reveng fantasy non sense I see on TV and hear on the radio. I don't think it classifies as Rock, but that is up to the Fellas to discern when they are making the line up up.
I don't think I am missing the point with the E in everywhere. It is not a jazz festival, nor is it a bluegrass festival, but a Rock Festival. Not to say that the line up wasn't diverse and playing fast and loose with the Rock theme with many bands be of sub genre's like Reggae, and other bands pushing the boundry towards Hip Hop like G Love (who I happen to like as much as cold beverages).
I think that the HORDE Festival's success is going to depend on BT picking up bands that are taking it to the next level and connecting with their core audience and have developed a Fan base that is large enough to attract enough fans to the show. Simple as that. I think relying on bands that have had their day seems safe but it wouldn't be pushing the horizons of Rock.
You know you can defend Hip Hop all you want, but it is like saying that some Hells Angels do good like Love Rides for charities. Truth of the matter is they are still predominantly 1 percenters and their reputation speaks for itself. Lets get honest with ourselves here. Hip Hop has to be judged for its over all content and not the content of one of its sub groups. The fact that it had to develop a sub group to promote a healthy mentality in the first place is evidence of the institutionalized negative nature of the musical genre. Am I saying all Hip Hop is bad? No, what I am saying is that I don't think the genre should be supported and developed using the Horde tour.
Having said that if there was a Hip Hop act at the Horde festival, I am sure it would be of the Conscious Hip Hop nature, and I wouldn't have a problem buying a ticket if that were the case.
Also please refrain from slagging the bands on the previous tours to support your point, the defunct and dead shot, was a ridiculous statement. A lot of HORDE bands are still kicking it tough, and just because a band broke up or someone died in them doesn't mean that they are no longer relevant. Making such a statement is silly, isn't it Tupac fans, Holler if you hear me now.
Posted 7 months ago # -
remaininlite
MemberWell, I'm not one to look to radio or TV for music, so maybe that's why we differ here so much.
Yes, it is/was a rock festival. But looking back, my favorite HORDE bands were FAR from being straight-up rock:
Leftover Salmon - BLUEGRASS
Taj Mahal - BLUES
Rusted Root - WORLD FUSION
Medeski, Martin and Wood - JAZZ
Ziggy Marley - REGGAE
Bela Fleck & the Flecktones "JAZZ-GRASS"So tell me again - it's strictly a "rock" festival, right?
I don't want to be judgemental here, but just based on your previous post, I'm assuming you're in your mid-late 40s? Early 50s, maybe? You seem to be a purist about this whole rock thing. And , "Lets get honest with ourselves here. Hip Hop has to be judged for its over all content and not the content of one of its sub groups." has to be one of the most closed-minded statements from a music fan I've ever heard. Wow.
And a sub-genre was created by its fans to distinguish it from others. Artists did not create it to distance themselves with the genre.
And the defunct/dead comment was not ridiculous. It's truthful and honest. And yes, there is definitely some lack of relevance of a now defunct band when we're discussing the live music world.
And by the way, referring to G. Love as a way to say "hey I'm hip and 'with it'", was truly laughable. I like the guy, but he is SOOOO far from hip-hop. Haha
Posted 7 months ago # -
dantraveler
MemberWhile not generally a huge fan of hip-hop, I think its somewhat shortsighted to try and seperate different genres of music as sustainable or not or even worthwhile. Most of the best festivals I've attended offered a pretty large range of music and I'm always eager to soak up whatever new sweet sounds I like, ESPECIALLY bands outside my fairly tight spectrum of music. It's one thing to have a friend give you a cd and say.."listen to this, it's good". Its quite another to walk by an obscure side stage and get caught up in an unexpected suprise frenzy with 400 stragers. Most recently for me it was Railroad Earth at the 2009 Mile High Music fest. Just smacked upside the head with something amazing and fresh. The older I get the more willing and open I am to try new stuff it seems.
As far as the "HORDE" tour goes or an anniversary of it- It really to me comes down to this: Does the band wanna play 2nd or(or 3rd?) fiddle to Panic and/or Phish? Of course doing this would force some serious rehearsal of obscurities and lost favorites. The same 8-10 songs with 4 "different" tunes and 2 tired covers will not do in this environment, they'd be yawned off the stage. If the band chooses to continue to tour this way they should go out alone and continue the nostalgia tour through casinos and sit-down theaters of 40-somethings waiting for Hook and Run- Around so they can race home to get the kids from the sitter by 12. Easier said than done to change at this point I'm guessing. CrossroadsPosted 7 months ago # -
Gordon_The_Hat
MemberDude, I am 36 years old, but I am flattered you think I am older than I am. I must be wise beyond my years. I brought up G Love because we were talking about non traditional rock and roll bands on the Horde Tour, not to impress you, you are cyber space to me.
So all of your favorite Horde bands not being completely rock was not really counter to my argument. Rock as a genre has a beautifull tradition of changing but staying the same. I think that is why it has had the longevity it has in a time where the next thing is only a down load away. All the bands you listed have some sort of connection to rock and roll, no matter how loose.
Personally I like GLove, always have. I remember when his first album dropped and we were slipping a copy of his tape into house party radios back in the day, it was good music to drink and smoke too, one of the many musical finds that I made before they were known. Cold Beverages, Baby Got Sauce, This Ain't Living, those tracks were killer, and at the time different from everything else but had that connected thread that makes something groundbreaking but comfortable. So was BT, Phish, and DMB.
You want to play cooler than me, then go right ahead, I am a Blues Traveler fan, I never gave two shits about what everyone thought was cool, and I still don't.
You want to talk about honesty well here it is, Hip Hop to me, maybe not to anyone else, but to me, once was a cool thing and is now a joke. I was one of its first fans, before it was even known as Hip Hop, I promoted it because you could do it anywhere. Repeat a rap, that was it. It was all cool sayings that weren't promoting negativity. A little cocky I guess, but it was all about promoting yourself as an MC back when it started. I was listening to boot leg tapes of the UTFO Roxxane Wars, bought LL Cool Js first Album with Rick Rubin as the producer, and was laughing at the Fat Boys when they were relevant. I stopped listening to it when it started to become a political tool and I haven't looked back. If that makes me closed minded then so be it. If I am not allowed to judge a musical genre in its entirety because of its predominant stated message, then call me a hater or uncool, I don't care. Never have never will.
What I care about is Rock and Roll. Its rythm, melody, and tonality as a whole have been a positive for me, and I think as a postive for our Nation in its entirety. As a whole, not its sub genre's, it doesn't promote the hatred of women, doesn't promote gang violence, doesn't promote selfishness, and doesn't promote materialism. If you claim to be honest and sit here and tell me that hip hop doesnt openly, and has never apologized about promoting these things then be my guest. Lie to yourself and everyone around you.
Until Hip Hop changes its face, and denounces those things that I feel are relegating it to joke status, then I won't listen to it, and I am of the mind to feel like it is bad for our Nation as a whole, and not worth my support by me buying a ticket to see it in a concert to help it grow.
I think Hip Hop will be fine without me.
Here is the crux of my position.
If the Horde tour had a hip hop act on one of its stages, I would be dissapointed in the fact that there is some rock band out there that is not ever going to get a chance at a Hip Hop festival, and a potential stage for them to promote what they are working on is now gone. Rock Bands that are beginning to break through could use a spot on a Horde Tour, and if it went to a hip hop act, I would feel like it was a missed opportunity to promote rock and roll.H.O.R.D.E. in its stated objective is Horizons of Rock Developing Everywhere, and was created to give radio unfriendly jam bands an opportunity to be seen and heard.
Its not closed minded to have a strong opinion of something that is grounded in reality, it means you are smart and strong enough to have a conviction.
As far as musicians and bands being defunct because they are deceased as it pertains to discussing the live music world, you are still way off. Think on it. Is Hendrix irrellevant? Is Stevie Ray Vaughn irrellevant? Is Garcia, Lennon, Lynrd Skynrd irrellevant? Is Bobby Sheehan irrellevant? All muscians are standing on the shoulders of those that came before them, that is something that is really very clear to any fan of music. Music is never created in a vacuum, it is always going to be linked to its past until it is left in the past. Rock and Roll has not run its course, and if the Horde Festival comes back, it can be part of keeping those greats alive in the music of young bands that will be exposed to the larger audience that the Horde Festival is capable of bringing.
In my humble and most honest opinion, Hip Hop should find its own fest.
Posted 7 months ago #
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